Showing posts with label Abbé Claude Barthe. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Abbé Claude Barthe. Show all posts

Friday, September 22, 2017

Abbé Claude Barthe: "The Restoration  Begun by Summorum Pontificum is Irreversible"


"We can say today that the restoration of the liturgy begun in the Church by Summorum Pontificum is irreversible."

Abbé Claude Barthe, spiritual assistant to the international pilgrimage, Populus Summorum Pontificum, said this in his greeting to Archbishop of Curia, Georg Gänswein, who celebrated the Vespers at the feast of the Crucifixion in the traditional form of the Roman Rite on the evening of 14 September 2017 in the Roman church of San Marco al Campidoglio.

Pope Francis had also used the word "irreversible" (irreversible). Without mentioning him, Abbé Barthe answered the Pope, who had said on 24 August, "We can safely and with dumb authority confirm that the liturgical form is irreversible."

Text: Giuseppe Nardi
Image: Riposte Catholique

Saturday, May 7, 2016

"An Interpretation of Amoris Laetitia From Tradition is Not Possible"-- Interview With Abbé Claude Barthe by Roberto de Mattei

Abbé Claude Barthe: Chapter VIII of Amoris Laetitia is incompatible
with the Church's tradition  
(Rome) The French priest Abbe Claude Barthe was one of the first people already on 8 April, the date of its publication, to take a position on the Apostolic Letter, Amoris Laetitia. The theologian has written many books, among others, La messe, une forêt de symboles (The Mass, a Forest of Symbols), Les romanciers et le catholicisme (The novelists and catholicity) and Penser l'oecuménisme autrement (Ecumenism Thinks Differently ). The historian and Catholic thinker, Roberto de Mattei conducted an interview for Corrispondenza Romana with Abbé Barthe to deepen the analysis.

Prof. de Mattei: it is very interesting for us to give Abbé Barthe the floor because you in your response to Amoris Laetitia  were not, as others had initially tried in the first moment, to read the Apostolic Letter on the basis of a traditional framework, and we share your reading.
Abbe Claude Barthe: I can not see how one could interpret  Chapter VIII of the letter within the meaning of the traditional doctrine, honestly. It would mean doing violence to the text  and not respecting the intent of the editors who want to introduce a new element: "Therefore, it is no longer possible to say ..." (AL, 301).
Prof. de Mattei: And yet, what is said in the Apostolic Exhortation that is not so new.

Abbe Claude Barthe: You're right, it is not new on the part of theological protest movements. Since the Council, under Paul VI. and John Paul II., there was a great undertaking primarily of protest theologians to attack Humanae Vitae with the help of books, "explanations" of theologians and congresses.  At the same time the demand of Communion for "remarried" divorced (and also homosexuals as couples and  cohabitants), I would say, played a symbolic role. One must know that it has long been the practice of many priests in France, Germany, Switzerland and many other places to allow "remarried" divorcees to communion, and to give them absolution when they want it.
The most common support for this demand came through a pastoral letter of 1 July 1993 of the Upper Rhine Bishops Saier, Lehmann and Kasper, entitled: "For pastoral care of people from broken marriages, divorced and remarried divorcees." It was about "respect for a decision of conscience."  It contained exactly, among other things, the arrangements of the current Apostolic Exhortation: in theory there would be no general admission to Communion, but the exercise of an examination with the priest to see whether the new partners "are authorized by their own conscience, to approach the table of the Logos." In France, some bishops (Cambrai, Nancy) have published files of diocesan synods that go in the same direction. Cardinal Martini, Archbishop of Milan, had also called for changes in the Discipline of the Sacraments in one general assemblyheld on 7 October 1999 at the General Assembly of the Synod of Bishops on Europe speech that was a real program for a pontificate.
And in fact you go to France, Belgium, Canada and the US even further: Some priest, even a relatively large number, celebrate for second marriages a small ceremony without the bishops prevent them. Some bishops encourage this practice even as it has done "divorcés remariés Chrétien" (Remarried divorced Christians Desclée de Brouwer, 1990) Msgr. Armand le Bourgeois, the former bishop of Autun in his book. The "jurisdictions of religious" like those of diocese also "regulate" this ceremony even, discreetly, to be done without bells, without the blessing of the rings.
Prof. de Mattei: Share the assessment that Cardinal Kasper played a leading role?
Abbe Claude Barthe: At the beginning already. Pope Francis called Kasper shortly after his election a "great theologian", as he prepared the ground with his speech to the Consistory of 20 February 2014 which caused a great sensation. From there the matter was continued with great skill in three stages: two synodal assemblies in October 2014 and in October 2015 where the reports contained Kasper's "message".
Between the two Synods of the text was on September 8, 2015 Mitis iudex Dominus Iesus whose architect was Msgr. Pinto, dean of the Roman Rota, to make  easier the nullity of marriage, mainly because it takes place before it gets in front of the bishop when the couple request nullity together, and it alone can decide, because the double judgement has been abolished.Some canonists have spoken  in this case already of a cancellation by mutual consensus.
The synod has  a kind of leadership core, which is a Cupola [the  Abbé Barthe's use of the Italian word refers to the leaders of a mafia organization], around the very influential Cardinal Baldisseri, the Secretary General of the Synod, together with Msgr. Bruno Forte, Archbishop of Chieti-Vasto and special secretary of the Synod, which is the number two, to Msgr. Fabio Fabene, new member of the Congregation of Bishops and undersecretary of the Synod, then still Cardinal Ravasi, President of the Pontifical Council for Culture, who was responsible for the message of the Synod Assembly, and all together carefully supported by Msgr. Victor Manuel Fernandez, rector of the Catholic University of Argentina, and by the Jesuit Antonio Spadaro, editor of the Roman Jesuit journal Civilta Cattolica . Added to this are other influential persons, all of whom are close to the Pope like the Bishop of Albano and C9 Cardinal Council Secretary Marcello Semeraro and Msgr. Vincenzo Paglia, President of the Pontifical Family Council. To them is also appended Cardinal Schönborn, the Archbishop of Vienna, the main one responsible for the Catholic Catechism, in the role of guarantorwho assumed   at the Synod that the text of the final report was already orthodox which Cardinal Müller refused to do. This whole team contributed a considerable amount of work in order to achieve the desired goal ...
Prof. de Mattei: To create a text of more than 250 pages submitted by the second Synodal Assembly ...
Abbe Claude Barthe: Even earlier ... The text of the post-synodal letter was broadly elaborated in September 2015 that is, before the start of the second Synod on marriage and the family.
Prof. de Mattei: You spoke of a desired target. What exactly?
Abbe Claude Barthe: It is very possible that it was at the beginning the intention of Pope Francis to grant only a "pastoral" and "merciful" pass. Since theology is a rigorous science, principles had to be announced, to justify a decision of conscience, to be permit people who live in public adultery to the sacraments. From the beginning, many passages of the Apostolic Exhortation prepare the doctrinal statement of the eighth chapter. There is the talk of "situations of weakness or imperfection" (AL, 296), and most of the divorcees who are seen "in a second union, settled over time, with new children, with proven loyalty, generous dedication, Christian commitment, with the awareness of the irregularity  their situation "involved," and great difficulty, these turn back without wanting the feeling on their conscience that they fall into new sin (AL, 298). In this "imperfect" situation (AL, 307), which relates to the "perfect ideal marriage," the Apostolic Exhortation rules for a "special exception" (AL, 301).
This happens naturally with the help of a priest "in the internal forum" (for both partners of the new union?) That the interested parties would be permitted to form a correct judgment of conscience (Al, 300). This judgment (The priest ?, the partner? with the explanation of the priest) do it because of "conditionalities or mitigating factors [...] possible that one in the middle of an objective situation of sin - who is not subjectively culpable or at least not completely "can go to the sacraments (AL, 305). It does not say whether this ruling also applies to the other priests who are interested to administer the sacraments. Anyway, it must be said that the text is not focused on access to the sacraments, which is treated in a footnote, which creates a pretty bashful impression (footnote 351).
A theological principle, however, is stressed which is summarized in paragraph 301 that is applicable to quote again: "It is therefore no longer possible to say that all who live in any so-called 'irregular' situations, are in a state mortal sin and have lost sanctifying grace. The restrictions have not only to do with a possible lack of knowledge of the standard. A person can, even though he knows the standard exactly, have great difficulty in understanding the values ​​at stake in the moral norm,[339] or he may be in a specific situation, which does not allow him to act differently and make other decisions without incurring a new sin."
A principle that can be analyzed as follows: 1) the basis of specific conditionalities, would be that people who are in "active" public adultery and know the moral rule prohibiting them, invite a guilt if they were to leave this situation (especially compared to the birth of children); 2) The people who live in  "active" public adultery, therefore, would not commit mortal sin if they remain in this state.
In fact, the negative consequences that result from the completion of the adulterous condition are (the children born of illegitimate union would suffer from the separation of parents) are not new sins, but the indirect effect of a virtuous action, namely the ending of a sinful state.
Natural justice must be respected, this applies especially to the continuation of the education of children from the second union, but outside a sinful state. So here we have a frontal contrast with the previous lesson that John Paul II. stressed in paragraph 84 of Familiaris Consortio. This clarified: If serious motives prevent it, that the "remarried" end in common life  under one roof,  then they have to live like brother and sister. This is in contrast to the new doctrinal proposal: Under certain conditions, adultery is not a sin.
Prof. de Mattei: You are saying  that one must not recognize the faith instinct?
Abbe Claude Barthe: All can not be reconciled with the natural and Christian morality. Those with knowledge of the moral norm have committed themselves sub gravi (the divine commandment that prohibits fornication and adultery) whose sin can not be excused, and therefore it can not be said that they in themselves are in a state of grace prior. St. Thomas Aquinas says in a Quaestio of the Summa Theologica, which all moralists well know, in Quaestio 19 of IA and IIÆ: It is the quality of an object that our quest arises that makes a voluntary act good and not the circumstances the action (Art. 2), and even if it is true that human reason can err and can take a bad action for good (Art. 5), are not some errors excusable, it is especially not those who disregard that one is not allowed to approach the wife of another, which is in direct opposition to the law of God (Art. 6).

Elsewhere, where it is also well-known to the moralists, in Quodlibet IX, Quaestio 7, Article 2, St. Thomas explains that circumstances can not change the value of an action, but its nature is one of the killing or punishing an offender to satisfy justice or legitimate defense. It is in this case not unjust violence, but a virtuous action. In contrast, he emphasizes that with some actions,  badness is inseparably linked, as in fornication, adultery, and other similar actions. You can never be good.
A child who reads the catechism understands this, Pius XII said in a speech on 18 April 1952 with which he condemned situation ethics that does not rely on the universal moral law, such as the Ten Commandments, but "in real and concrete conditionalities and circumstances in which one must act, and according to which the deciding individual conscience must judge and decide."
Pius XII. recalled that a good intention can never justify objectionable means, and that there are situations in which man, and especially the Christian, must sacrifice everything, even his life, to save his soul. The same thing happened in the encyclical Veritatis Splendor of John Paul II., when she says that the circumstances or the intentions of a dishonest act in itself can never turn into a subjectively honest effect of their object. He said, quoting St. Augustine (Contra mendacium): fornication, curses, etc. remain, even if they were committed for good reasons, always sins.
Prof. de Mattei: What's to be done?
Abbe Claude Barthe: The words of Christ can not be changed: "Even a woman commits adultery when she divorces her husband and marries another" (Mk 10:12). Professor Robert Spaemann, a German philosopher and friend of Benedict XVI.commented that any reasonable person can see that here we have a break. I do not think that one can be content to assert an interpretation of the eighth chapter of the Apostolic Exhortation, according to which nothing has changed. One must also take the Pope's words seriously, which confirmed the presentation of the letter by Cardinal Schönborn on the return flight from Lesbos.
The theological principle is clear and the commitment to truth requires us to say that it is not acceptable. This also applies to the related proposals, such as those who claim that illicit cohabitation or the communion of the divorced and remarried the ideal of marriage are embodied "at least partially and in analog." (AL, 292). It is therefore to be hoped, in the strong sense of theological hope, that many pastors, bishops and cardinals will speak in a clear way for salvation. At the same time, by the infallible Magisterium of the Pope or the Pope and  the bishops in communion with him, to solicit, request and demand an authentic interpretation - in terms of the interpretation of the revealed Depositums, including Depositums of natural law, and all that which is associated with it - that which differs and thus confirms in the name of faith what is true and rejects what is not.
It seems to me that today, 50 years after the Second Vatican Council,  we are entering into a new Post-Conciliar phase. We have seen a few passages on ecumenism, on religious freedom, breached the dam of doctrinal and theological Roman ecclesiological doctrine which was believed to be safe and well knit. Then another dam was built to withstand against the surge of modernity, the natural and Christian morality, whose starting points were Humanae Vitae of Paul VI. and all subsequent documents of John Paul II. on this subject. Everything that was described as  the "Restoration" as Joseph Ratzinger described it in "State of the faith,"  was largely built on the basis of the defense of marriage and the family. Everything happens now, as though the dam will break  at any moment.
Prof. de Mattei: Someone might accuse you exaggerated pessimism ...
Abbé Barthe: On the contrary. I think we are witnessing a crucial moment of Post-Conciliar history. It's hard to say what the consequences will be of that which we are experiencing, but it will be considerable. And despite everything, I'm sure that it will be positive in the end. First of all, I am safe by faith because the Church has the words of eternal life. I am also confident a very real way, because the need for a return to the Magisterium, the teaching that is actually one, will emerge more clearly in the future.
Translation: Giuseppe Nardi 
Image: Corrispondenza Romana
Trans: Tancred vekron99@hotmail.com
Link to Katholisches...
AMDG

Monday, October 22, 2012

Summorum Pontificum: A Source of Priests and Religious Vocations -- Interview With Abbé Claude Barthe

(Rome)  From the 1st to the 3rd of November the first great international pilgrimage of Tradition since the promulgation of the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum to Rome will take place.   The pastoral assistant of the pilgrimage is the French priest, Abbé Claude Barthe.  During the International Pilgrimage the Immemorial Mass of All Ages will be celebrated by three high dignitaries of the Roman Curia,  Antonio Cardinal Canizares Llovera, Walter Cardinal Brandmueller and Curial Bishop Giuseppe Sciacca, the General Secretary of the Governorate of Vatican City.  The Pontifical High Mass at the conclusion of the Pilgrimage in the St. Peter's Basilica will be celebrated by Cardinal Canizares.

Abbé Barthe who is one of the driving forces for the execution of the Una cum Papa Nostro Pilgrimage and gave Alberto Carosa of Vatican Insider the following interview.

Abbé, there are requests of your person from several sides. Would give us a brief resume of your education and vocational path?

I was born in Fleurance in 1947 in south western France.  My priestly vocation went back to my Catholic childhood. I studied at the Catholic Institute of Toulouse as a Diocesan seminarian.  The post-Concliar Revolution forced me therefore to leave the seminary.  I then received a degree in History and Jurisprudence.  I felt so bound tot he traditional liturgy, that I entered into the Priestly Fraternity of St. Pius X in Econe.  In 1970 I was ordained a priest by Archbishop Lefebvre.  I belonged then to the "hard" wing of the Traditionalists, but I became increasingly Roman and finally a diocesan priest.   Today I am an instructor in the subject of Liturgy in a seminary of Tradition.  One could also say that I am a "published  priest" because of my numerous, perhaps too numerous books and articles.

How did this idea of a pilgrimage of Tradition take place and how were you selected as the pastoral assistant?


The idea of a pilgrimage and for a Traditional Mass in St. Peter's Basilica for the "People of Summorum Pontificum", as well as the diocesean and also the communities, along with the SSPX, has been in existence for about a year in the so-called Roman circles of the "Reform of the Reform",  who really see in the extraordinary form of the Roman Rite,  a supporting pillar for true Liturgical renewal.  Because of the very diverse roles of a Pastoral Assistant they probably thought of me, because I was seen as a party follower who sees "unity in all living powers", a kind manner of border runner between all directions of Tradition.

On the 10th of September you held a press conference, which announced the Pilgrimage.  Could you tie together some of the central aspects?

In the first line I wanted to establish that it would be a pilgrimage of thanksgiving.  The pilgrims will offer above all a thanksgiving Mass in the extraordinary form and and as support for the Holy Father on the 5th Anniversary of the promulgation of the Motu proprio Summorum Pontificum, which is generally known to have come into power on September 14th, 2007.  For many diocesan -- and religious priests who offer their daily sacrifice of the Mass in the extraordinary form, it acted like a spiritual victory, even for the faithful who -- still sadly too few -- parishes, who could feel joy at this Liturgy and its mysticism.   One can say that in this decision by Benedict XVI.  an entire Summorum Pontificum-people was created.  This people will thank him for this.

And how about the other aspects?

I must say that it also will act as a recognition of loyalty to Peter.  The second reason is to announce our love for the Church and our loyalty to Peter, just as and especially in this current time of a bitter and difficult situation.  We are full conscious that the efforts, which the Pope has confronted has been difficult.  The Traditional Roman Mass, especially the High Mass, will always be a wonderful sign of faith of the Church as Mater et Magistra:  it is this Liturgical recognition which we bring to expression at the tomb of the Apostle, for the successor of Peter.  It will be a gift and a plea.  We will especially offer a gift to God, to ask him for graces for the reigning Pope, in order for him to continue his wonderful work, which he has completed since the beginning of his pontificate, especially today in the midst of cross and trial.

The pilgrimage is taking place along with the opening of the Year of Faith, is there a relationship between the two events?

Naturally.  Our pilgrimage will also express our participation in the mission of the Church.  Would would like to introduce the contribution of the always youthful traditional Liturgy for the New Evangelization, which the Holy Father is asking for during the Year of Faith.  It is clear that this is an initiative with the support of a large number of families, and that it is a source of increasingly larger numbers of religious and priestly vocations, something, which has shown itself as proven to extremely valuable in the Western world at present.

It appears that has not sufficiently considered this completely other vocations "crisis", which the institutes of Tradition are experiencing, in which they are forced to refuse those waiting for priestly office because of a shortage of places and facilities, a crisis which is the exact opposite of the Diocesan.

I would even say that one must especially stress this point.  By the grace of God, the Traditional Liturgy promoted without filling all the holes,  there has been a significant growth in vocations in certain countries like France and the USA -- still, the phenomenon could widen itself.  In France for example there are 710 diocesan seminarians against 140 seminarians (50 from the SSPX) in seminaries of Tradition,  this corresponds to 16%.  This relationship also effects those who are ordained to the priesthood.  This year there were 21 new priests of tradition against 97 diocesan priests.  Additionally there has been a complete transformation and realignment of the diocesan clergy.   The young dicoesan priests and the seminarians of the diocese are drawn to both forms of the Roman Rite and say this quite openly.   It is not to underestimate if the same goes for Ffrance, that a third of the diocesan priestly candidates could be described as candidates for Summorum Pontificum.  "Le petit people", as one says in the French, the simple faithful, stand by the Holy Father to follow the mission of the Church.

How do you explain the criticism and irritation about the pilgrimage, which has come from certain circles?

I can tell you that I have recommended that the organization committee is formed around Una Voce, because it works for unification, which is held int he world of Tradition as "neutral" and therefore liable to have the least criticism.  The conflicts and directions within the groups of Tradition considered, it seemed a good idea, to support them first by a hastily established committee,  in order to avoid jealousies and rivalries.  Some critics appeared from the worry in the success from it that a new organization could be created, which would encompass the entire world of Tradition.  If that had been our intention, we would surely have already succeeded to make the earth square.  I think that around the earth in the meantime have the understanding that we have solely organized a modest organizational committee for this event, which will direct the pilgrimage and dissolve on the evening of the 3rd of November.

What message do you want to finish this interview with?

I don't want to finish with theological words, but with those which the faithful can understand that the Holy Mass on the 3rd of November is a giant "parish Mass" of Catholics from the whole world, who come in order to be together with the"Universal Pastor", to pray with the Pope.  They want want to be together for him and to pray with him in the Gregorian Latin Liturgy, which out of their very own understanding is a community Liturgy.


Abbé Claude Barthe was born in 1947 in the Archdiocese of Toulouse, studied at the Institut Catholique de Toulouse from 1964, where he acquired a degree degree in history and in civil law. In the post-Conciliar upheaval he adopted traditionalist positions and entered the seminary of the Society of St. Pius X . in Econe Switzerland. In 1979, he was received by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, founder of the SSPX priest. Because of sedevacantist positions he was expelled from the SSPX in 1987. He was among the founders of the magazine Catholica, which he edited for several years and is one of the sharpest critics of the Church crisis, the brilliant theologian and liturgist the took a teaching position at the seminary of the Institute Bon Pasteur. After years of a canonically unclear status, Barthe approached together with the founders of the Institute Bon Pasteur increasingly to Rome and finally returned back to full unity with the Holy See. In 2005 the canonical status was finally resolved by a decision of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei, and he was issued a Celebret. He now teaches Liturgy at the seminary of the Institute of Christ the King and High Priest. Abbé Barthe has written many books that are not available in English.

Link to Katholisches original....

Interview: Alberto Carosa/Vatican Insider
Translation into German: Giuseppe Nardi
Bild: Wikicommon
Translation English: Tancred 
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